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The Phoenix Manx
Tell us about your Project, Were you at in tyour build. Post Pictures etc.
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biblethumpncop
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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 02:51 PM
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Any further progress and pictures?


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 05:07 AM
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Well, here it is September and I haven't added any updates in awhile. I have reassembled the buggy and have been running it on the street for a few months in short hops to try a get some of the bugs out and to see if any more pop up their head. Took it to a couple of east side meetings then I had a month and a half vacation out of state. Took the buggy for emissions and failed LOADED ran HC of 315 with 1200 allowed and CO ran 5.92 with 5.60 allowed,, IDLE was HC 473 of 1200 allowed and CO failed again with 7.92 of 7.50 allowed. i think I figured it out now 34 PICT carb.... When I bought spark plugs for the motor I asked the counter person to gap or me since my gap tool was??? When I installed, didn't check. Just changing today those were gapped at 40 ths. A bit too wide of a gap. Also, the carb solenoid and the choke weren't supplied 12V at the time of the testing. I know that now. But, looked at the emissions failure as the time to move up to dual carbs I had been planning on. Nothing complex or expensive. So ordered the EMPI knock offs of the Webers, the 34 EPC (ICT) style. Less than $250 for everything from Carcraft in Riverside. Looks and installed nicely (instructions are really lacking with the kit). I agree with Perri that the cross bar will need upgraded in the future. After installing the new intakes/carbs I got ready to re-install my old chrome bullet dual exhaust, but that was a no go, wouldn't clear the new manifold/carb combo. Wanting to keep the dual exhaust look, ordered the only sub $300 exhaust combo advertised to clear the dual carbs, another EMPI item.
Since I forgot to order a carb sync tool, just adjusting by site and ear. Sounds better now than before. My main issue now is that the back 2 cylinders seem to carrying most of the load, at least at idle. Disconnecting either of the two front has little to no effect on idle speed (trying to fine tune the sync by load balancing, after I visually matched as close as possible, which is how I discovered). Motor sounds normal. I have installed new plugs, timed, moved rocker gap down to .006 from .008 that I had them at, hooked up a balance tube to the vacuum hookup between the carbs. Still the same. Anyone else experienced this issue? I assume that the cylinders will balance out at higher RPMs. Will this give skewed numbers for emissions? Should I bump the RPMs up to 15-1800 range to pass?
Anyway, it's running and street-able a after emissions. I have installed 2002 Chevy Cavalier buckets, and superbeetle steering column. Will post some updated pics tomorrow after work.


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 03:31 AM
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Sounds a little like an issue I was having after putting on a different head. My number #3 wasn't firing all the time at idle, but as RPM increased it would come in.

I tried other heads with the same problem with each. WTF So I left the original on till I decide to rebuild the whole thing. (If your wondering why I was changing it, I have a bad leak from hitting a rock.)


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 05:17 AM
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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 06:20 AM
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Thanks Conundrum, can understand the confusion. This unbalanced issue only happened with the new carbs and exhaust. Funny thing is it sounds normal. No idling issues. Can just reach in and start without touching the gas. Hot or cold.

As promised here are 3 different angles of the Manx today. After the pics have added back on the side brush guards (rear tire protectors). Was going to pull off the old front rims and see if the Ansel Indy mags will clear the aftermarket front disc rotors. Was going to till I lost my workspace to a full out mosquito attack.
And thinking today about the uneven engine loading... Thinking the cause may be the short intake runner and the sequential firing of the two cylinders for each side. The first cylinder pulls in a charge to get air flow going for that side and the the next cylinder benefits from the relatively much higher air flow and thus density, in effect at low RPMs could think of the 2 adjacent cyliders as having different compression ratios as one will get more air and fuel. But as RPM increases the air flow increases and the cylinder become balanced (provided exhaust tubes are equal length to the collector).
At this point the engine runs so much better that there is no comparison. For example test driving today... I rolled up to a 90 degree turn- itersection--, left the car in 2nd gear and gave the buggy gas, and running the 31x10.5x15 tires, it actually spun the big tires from the 5mph takeoff in 2nd. Much smoother and more power throughout the power band. Even low end improved. The unequal loading situation was not there with the single 34 PICT carb. But I don't think it will hurt anything, now it's just IF it passes emissions unequally loaded.
The buggy still feels like it is almost synced, but like one side is powering up just a little before the other does. Might just be a perception issue as the engine runs sooo much better. The smaller diameter exhaust tubes on the new exhaust probably helps the stock 1600 DP run better as well in the lower RPM rage. So now to order a sync tool to get it right before the next Emissions test. Anyone have any thoughts...


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 03:27 PM
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Yeah, I didn't know I had a problem, till I bought the same exhaust you have. Prior I had a trimill? Stinger type exhaust that all collected into one tube with a baffle and a flapper from a tractor.

Being '66 I don't have emissions. I hope you can get yours through. I HATE Going through all that and I have a truck coming up for it that'll suck. Last time I spent about $700 replacing parts till I got it to pass.

My concern would only be that you may be overcarbed with the 1600 and I predict problems with HC especially at idle. Did you rejet or get them jetted for a 1600? You were very close with the other carb and just a little leaner and a slightly higher idle and I think (hope) you would have passed.

If you lived closer, I'd offer to help. Sad Good Luck!


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 02:05 AM
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The description on Carcraft's webpage reads: 34 EPC's are great on all VW engines. Kits are available for Dual Port or Single Port engines. Gives your engine that extra power without killing your MPG. Carb kit is just like the Weber ICT's. Kits come complete as seen with Manifolds, Carbs., Linkage, Air Filters, Fuel Line and Hardware. Type 1 kits will fit all Type 2 Bus up to 1971. Also available in Type 3 & 4 Carbs are recommended for 1600cc and up, jetting may be required if trying to run these on engines larger than 1835cc's.
The add makes it look as if the jetting is set for the smaller CC's as it states rejetting needed for over 1835. High HC is not what I was worried about. The single was running at roughly 1/4 of max, didn't think the duals would move the numbers up 4X, but unburned fuel, if there will be detrimental. Idle speed concerns is why I was thinking of boosting the idle speed up to 15-1800 RPM.
The carb reviews I read on SAMBA was positive. 2 users installed, idle sync'ed and went through emissions. I ordered the snail sync last night. So, when I get it delivered, will sync by gauge and make another attempt. Also, now the exhaust fumes don't have the "Rich" unburned fuel smell that the single produced.


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 02:06 AM
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Here is the link for the carb kit I've installed.

carcraftstore.com/34ep...style.aspx


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 04:02 AM
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Sounds like you're getting closer. That's a real nice kit for the price. Seems a little too cheap though.

The right tool should be all the difference. Good luck. Let us know how it goes, I might be interested in a set of these someday.



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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 06:11 AM
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Shok is happy with his. Got the same upgrade.

I think the H-bar will need upgraded eventually. Had also heard that the metal on some carb castings can be porous. I was ready to epoxy potential porous castings, but mine looks fine so far. Also, if you decide to go this route, when you get the kit, pop the carbs open to make sure the is no uncleaned machining material left loose. I found one little piece in mine, but I may have dropped it in as it looked more like the quality aluminum from my corvette's suspension that I was working on than from carb machining residue. They look just like the Weber and from what I've read, the Weber parts are a direct fit.

www.azbaja.com/ForumsP...craft.html


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 02:35 PM
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A question.....I am getting ready to rejet the carbs (EMPI 34 EPCs, same as WEBER 34 ICTs), prior to emissions. Anyone have experience/recommendations? Here is the closest I could find, though recommendations worldwide vary:

"The recommended jets for a stock 1600 single/twin port are
idle jet 55
main jet 150
air corrector jet 170
emulsion tubes F3/F6
needle valve 125-140

F3/F6 emulsion tubes have no drilling high up on the tube allowing the idle jet to do its job without adding early fuel from the main jet.

I have also been told that if I solder up the top holes in the F78 emulsion tubes that will stop the off idle fuelling and then the 55 idle jets will be correct."

I did write down the Main jet 130 and air corrector 160, so I am assuming everything else is per normal Weber stock normal of:
idle jet 52
main jet 130
air corrector jet 160
emulsion tube F78
needle valve 175"

I am not a carb guy by any stretch of the imagination. But looks like the main and idle are both LEAN and the air/emulsion will allow TOO much just off idle through, IF the recommended settings are correct. So the engine would go from LEAN at idle to RICH just off idle through low to mid RPM ranges for a few moments, but at upper reaches will be way lean again. Then if we factor in the needles.... well the motor should not be happy at all. I am trying to look at longevity and still make the state happy (emissions). Any experience/ideas before I leap blindly forward. I know some people like to go to the shop/pros, and I may end up that route, but I am trying to fully learn/know my VW as I do my Vette. Field repairs are easier if you fully understand your VW. Besides, the that there is the nice feeling of self accomplishment when you make it all fall together correctly.

Will that be a good fit for my bone stock 1600 here in AZ?

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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 03:44 PM
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I'm always struggling with my progressive weber and will be pulling it apart to verify my jetting (Was chasing an unrelated issue and thought it was the jetting) is correct.

If I had to go through emissions, I would just have a bone stock Carb to go with the 1600 or have a 1300 built and ready for just the occasion. (I'm '66)

In any case, I've always thought that you have the fastest lean idle and that's where it stays. There's tricks to getting past emissions by leaning even further to where it barely runs and then kick the idle up near where they'll say it's too high to perform the test. (Don't have a tach hooked up when testing.) Just be sure to retune so your engine doesn't get toasted.

IIRC too lean increases CO, too rich increases HC. Unitl you fail the test you wont know which direction to go unfortunately. Good luck.


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 04:49 PM
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I've got a progressive Weber I'm going to put on the Thing and ran across a couple of web pages that might help you.

www.chirco.com/tech_articles/?p=349

type2.com/library/fuel...ssive.html

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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:01 PM
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Well the sega continues, never ending with a VW is it? the previous owner had over adjusted the rear spring pretension and the buggy was running on just the outer edges of the rear tires. Gives good ground clearance, but compromises safety in the whoops & while cornering, gives poor tire wear, and is a very harsh ride. I decided to drop the rear suspension by a full tooth. By doing so the ride is near normal. Got urethane bushings and this tool ( www.chircoestore.com/c...ts_id=2362 ) from Chirco to make life easier. 4 hours (first time doing this) later and all is looking rosy till I discover that the rear shocks can be pushed up and down with my little finger as there is no resistance from the shock. More work... luckily I have a rear IRS suspension from a 1970 or so that has the shocks still attached and feel strong. Will install those later as I think they are a direct fit. Sorry I didn't take any picts, as was pressed for time then to have the work finished for the west side river bottom run on the 3rd.


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Post Post subject: The Phoenix Manx
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:16 PM
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I did a minor addition on the gas tank hump (camel hump as AZBaja calls it) to widen the top so that a gas cap cover would fit and the body line from the top would taper towards the bottom of the hump. Easy now that I had some practice earlier this year. Here is the finished product.





The cover is plastic, ordered from a VW specialty race site for apprx $10 or so and finally allowed me to seal up the "hood" top.


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