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Baja Forums -:- VW Volkswagen Bug, Baja, Bus, Sandrail and Thing -:- VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion -:- Torsion Choices?
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Torsion Choices?
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catchbats
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Post Post subject: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 05:13 PM
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I know there's probably a million threads on this, however I'd like someone thats used them and can give a personal opinion. I'm changing out my IRS torsion bars and spring plates to get rid or the stubs in front of the rear axle. I have been kind of going by Chircos project build for info, however which torsion bars does anybody actually recommend for the rear. I'm not going to be airborne for any time so I dont need to beefy. Chircos build uses 27mm ? Is this a good all around choice? Or is this going to be too stiff on the road? Whats you thoughts? What are you using? Please let me know, thanks.

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az350x
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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 06:01 PM
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You staying with stock trailing arms, or eventually going 3x3? That will have some bearing on your choice. I'm running 3x3s with 28mm Sway-a-way torsions. No complaints. Mostly daily driver, occasional trail. I've yet to ever really get hard on the car.


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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 06:25 PM
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Uhm. I think I may just box the arms in, I was going to wait till more cash flowed in for that though.

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az350x
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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 07:31 PM
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I'd think that if budget was an important consideration for you, AND you weren't planning on longer trailing arms, AND you aren't looking for 70 mph desert runs, that stock torsions with some good shocks might be all you'd need. You could certainly try that configuration out with little/no financial implications and work from there if it didn't suit your needs.

Just my feeble opinion... Laughing


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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:00 AM
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So use 61-68 stock torsion bars and spring plates.

You will need to cut down the spring plates to match the shape of the stock IRS plates. You could make a cardstock pattern from something like a cereal box. Cutting should be done with an abrasive chop saw and notch the end with a handheld grinder like a 4-1/2". A drill press with a 1/2" bit should do the bolt holes easy. Just make sure the locations of the holes are correct before you drill.

Why are you concerned with getting rid of the stubs? Large tires? How big?


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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 03:56 AM
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Are the stock torsions from those years shorter? I haven't even looked at the tires yet, I think they are 31's right now. I currently have the body off for a pan change, along with new everything else. I just wanted to beef up the ass end for driving out here and I'm doing a cage in a week or so. The tires right now are sitting like 1 inch from the stub. That just seems very close to me. I was going to do the front end, but really didnt want to get into changing out the frame head. Not that I can't, I just don't want too. So I'm going to stick with the BJ front end for now. Its already adjusted up. This is my first build like this, My other vehicle is a 4runner, so there's a huge difference. I really wanted to build this to take abuse from me in the desert out here.

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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 03:58 AM
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I actually used to use the intermediate length stock torsions. I pulled them off of a Type 3. In fact, come to think of it, they're still on the car. I forget what size they are (and I'm too lazy to look them up right now), but the bars aren't as long sticking out of the spring plates. I was REALLY happy with them and they bolt right up. Since the Type 3's are heavier cars, they required a heavier duty torsion bar. It is a couple inches shorter than the standard IRS T-1, so that also makes them have a little less twist. From memory the T1's are 26", T3's are 24" and Swngs are 21"??? Sound about right? There are some fractions involved, but I think those are approximate whole numbers.

Remember a couple of things when selecting a torsion bar: Shorter is going to be stiffer (less twist) if the diameters are the same. Stiffer is also harder on your torsion housing, and if it's too stiff, you're liable to break the housing if you preload the heck out of it. I won't make any recommendations regarding the aftermarket set-ups, but I remember seeing a chart on the net somewhere that shows weight vs. recommended diameter. You might check on the Sway-A-Way website.

Like I said before.... The stock T3 set-up worked terrific for me.


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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 04:00 AM
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catchbats wrote:
The tires right now are sitting like 1 inch from the stub. That just seems very close to me.

If your tires are round (and I hope they are), 1" of clearance is plenty!


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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 04:05 AM
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Chircos build they did, used a 27mmm X 21 3/4 torsion bar. A Dual shock setup going through the well into the car and attched to the cage. I've been kind of going by that, but like you said, I don't wan't to bust anything. If 27mm is way to stiff I'd rather find out now, than later and have to get different ones. Its not going to be a daily driver. But i'd like to at leat be able to drive it on the road if I wanted too.

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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 04:08 AM
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So I'd just have to build up some spring plates to work then? Hmmm.. I'm having issues getting part for this, Maybe I'll see if I can find some T bars for that then??

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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 04:11 AM
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What is the stock size MM wise of the torsion of these things? I just wanted to go a little stiffer than stock?

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MojaveRacer208
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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 06:47 AM
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22mm is stock T1
I had Sway-A-Way 27mm short bars in my 65 swingaxle. When they were brand new, they beat the crap out of me and the car. I took it out and did an evening's worth of whoops and such, going pretty hard. The next day the rear bars were SWEET. They required some break-in. Used bars should be already broken-in.

If you're going to keep the car mostly stock, stock 22mm swing axle bars should be fine. And as 57Baja says, if the tires are round, 1" of clearance is FINE. 31x10.50s are what many 5-1600 racers run for tires. If you are going to 3x3 arms, a big motor and gearbox, etc....Then 33x12.50s are in order. Probably NOT much bigger. Then you don't need to worry about the torsions sticking out anyway.


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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 03:20 PM
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Sweet, Thanks for all the info guys! I appreciate all the advice, simply because I believe building and using is the best test of all, with the options available out there. The olny way to know how well soemthing is going to work is really, spending a ton of dough for something that may not work, or just talk to someone that's done it!

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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 03:42 AM
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I believe I've read somewhere that if you get used bars, try and make sure you know the left one from the right, and install them the same way. I think they can snap if they've already been broken in one way and you try and run them the other.

DISCLAIMER- I'm either confusing this with axles, or it may even apply to both, as they get used to twisting one direction. If I recall correctly, my Sway-a-way torsions are stamped left and right on the end of them.

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I used to think only about 98% of the population were worthless douchebags. I'm thinking lately of revising my estimate...

'59 Baja- SOLD

5 VW's (O\!/O) since 1/2005!

MY GARAGE LINK
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az350x
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Post Post subject: Re: Torsion Choices?
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 03:44 AM
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I believe I've read somewhere that if you get used bars, try and make sure you know the left one from the right, and install them the same way. I think they can snap if they've already been broken in one way and you try and run them the other.

DISCLAIMER- I'm either confusing this with axles, or it may even apply to both, as they get used to twisting one direction. If I recall correctly, my Sway-a-way torsions are stamped left and right on the end of them.

2,000!


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'59 Baja- SOLD

5 VW's (O\!/O) since 1/2005!

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