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Baja Forums -:- VW Volkswagen Bug, Baja, Bus, Sandrail and Thing -:- VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion -:- turbo efi baja
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turbo efi baja
Bug, Baja, Thing and Buggies. Most every thing that will not fit any any other area. See list of other Forums for better topic placement...Volkswagen General Discussion
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Neander
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Post Post subject: turbo efi baja
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:21 PM
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im trying to plan out what engine i want to build for my baja. i was considering a turbo set up, and/or efi. CB has a kit for like 4000 Shocked or something. i aint made of money, but i thought it sounded cool Cool what would be some advantages/disadvantages of a turbo for off roading? would it even be worth it?

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KooK
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:55 PM
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Depends on the type of offroading really. If you're going to be pushing 60+mph and hard on the throttle, a turbo would do pretty well. However, if you're crawling or going through some mud, you're keeping it under 30mph, a turbo can start to work against you.

On an aircooled setup, you've gotta be careful, you probably wouldn't want to be running higher PSI. You figure on a turbo, if you're running 10psi through the intake, on some setups, you'll be running 30psi in the exhaust just to spin the turbo. Heat will build up quickly, you've got your oiling system trying to cool both the turbo and the engine, if you don't have an intercooler you'll be shooting hot air through the intake. I mean, lots of heat involved that needs to be considered. My daily driver sees 1250-1450 degrees on my EGT (exhaust gas temp) gauge just cruising down the highway and not in boost (this is a water cooled turbo too).

If you're interested, I can give you more details, but you'll have to tell me how you want to use the car. I can tell you how to do a cheap build with a small turbo, probably push some decent power out of the thing. Just a warning, I've never run a turbo on an aircooled block, but 90% of the cars that come through my shop are turbo, supercharged, or nitrous (or a combo of the 3). Anything I were to recommend, I would expect you to follow it up with research on your own to make sure it will perform exactly how you want it to.

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Neander
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:55 PM
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i was planning on driving the baja faster off road, not for crawling and such, thats why im asking about a high hp turbo. if you could tell me more about the cheap build as well that be really cool.id definitely try to rid an inter cooler if i went with a hi po turbo setup also, are you using a wasserboxer block or a different make engine?

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Thuff
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:27 AM
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If you don't care if it is a vw engine. find a 87 or 88 thunderbird turbo coupe or a svo mustang from about 85 up. They have a 2300 that is turboed already.

I had an 88 turbo coupe and had the turbo worked over so it would build boost very early. I had to change the radiator for a little better one mostly because i built a bunch more heat. I also beefed up the head a bit so that helped too. I had almost no turbo lag though. It also built about 25 psi of boost. a little improvement over the 17 from the factory though. It had 235 horse from the factory and i figured i had an easy 250 to 260 when i was done. I just wish i was in to bajas back then. I would have kept that engine for the baja.

Go to a junk yard they are still out there.

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KooK
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:31 AM
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As far as my personal vehicles:
my VW is N/A
my daily is I4 Turbo (Cruise EGT - 1250-1450, Intake temp - 125average)
my truck is I6 Turbo diesel (Cruise EGT - 600-700, Intake temp - 110average)
my Drag Racer is I6 Turbo (Cruise EGT - 1100-1200, Intake temp - 110average)
my Road Racer is V8 Turbo (Cruise EGT - 650-750, Intake temp - 95average)

I have delt with Subarus 2.0-2.5 Turbo engines and such but their shortblocks aren't going to compare to VW aircooled shortblocks.

How much hp are you looking for, what's your current engine setup? Are you going to be changing anything out to run boost or are you just going to be bolting it on? Also, what kind of tools do you have to work with, are you able to make custom brackets and such for mounting the turbo so you don't have this huge chunk of metal hanging on the end of your exhaust?

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KooK
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 01:50 AM
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Thuff wrote:
If you don't care if it is a vw engine. find a 87 or 88 thunderbird turbo coupe or a svo mustang from about 85 up. They have a 2300 that is turboed already.

I had an 88 turbo coupe and had the turbo worked over so it would build boost very early. I had to change the radiator for a little better one mostly because i built a bunch more heat. I also beefed up the head a bit so that helped too. I had almost no turbo lag though. It also built about 25 psi of boost. a little improvement over the 17 from the factory though. It had 235 horse from the factory and i figured i had an easy 250 to 260 when i was done. I just wish i was in to bajas back then. I would have kept that engine for the baja.

Go to a junk yard they are still out there.

My biggest thing is, why really bother doing a hybrid? If you wanted to turbo and go fast offroad in something other than a Volkswagen engine, you could pick up a 90-94 AWD Turbo Eclipse, Talon, or Laser that you can lift (Cheap car, easy to get parts, easy to fix). You'll have more traction, you'll be faster, and it's 10x easier than cluttering up the back end of a Baja.

By the way, if you were running the stock turbo up to 25psi, you were probably pushing it further than what it should have been. You'll still make more power up to a point, but you'll be throwing in tons of hot air, you're going to start detonating it up top, you're going to heat soak faster, and all this other fun stuff. In 1988 the turbo coupes were rated at 190hp and the 5spds should have had 14.7psi, the automatics were detuned and were rated at 150hp at almost 10psi.

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bajaboi727
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 02:18 AM
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If you do a turbo you gotta keep your motors compression down for sure or you'll be rebuildin the motor alot.


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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 02:24 AM
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If you do a turbo you gotta keep your motors compression down for sure or you'll be rebuildin the motor alot.


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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 02:27 AM
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bajaboi727 wrote:
If you do a turbo you gotta keep your motors compression down for sure or you'll be rebuildin the motor alot.

Depends on the setup. I've run turbos on cars nearing 11:1 compression. Keep the intake temps down, keep the boost low, redo the timing map, maintain 11.7:1 AFR at WOT and you'll be ok. Although when you get that high of compression it's good to run water injection, or run a centrifical style blower instead of a Turbo (which is what I used to do).

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Neander
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 02:54 AM
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my current is a 1641, but thats not the engine im building off of. im making a new engine. id build the engine to run a turbo if thats what i decide to do. i might be able to make brackets and such, nothing too crazy tho, i have access to welders. id like it to be quick off and on road and have enough torque to get up hills and such. id like to keep the engine vw based

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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 03:22 AM
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Until I can get some better numbers and a better idea of the build, it's hard to throw anything out.

A cheap setup would be taking a stinger exhaust, cutting it and welding a turbo flange to it, making a flange for the turbo to sit to take some weight off the exhaust, probably buy a cheap TD05H turbo, bolting it on there, running a small air-air intercooler and pumping it into a blow-through carb (a single blow-through carb should help cool the intake temps by giving the air time to mix with the fuel). Probably just start off running a turbonetics 38mm wastegate with a 5psi spring and a Mitsubishi 1g style metal blow off valve. I'd probably run a small oil cooler before the turbo or on a separate oil line (don't run it on the return or you'll back oil up in the turbo and leak it through the seals).

If you can get everything used, you'll probably pull it off for under a grand. But you need to remember two things, this is a throw-together turbo kit and wont be perfect, if you get the power and the range you want, fantastic, otherwise you should at least be close; and watch those temps!

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BugZyla.com
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 03:54 AM
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We worked on a turbo multi port injected rail a few weeks back. VERY responsive and fast!! Just gotta get the right exhaust scroll on the turbo so it spools fast.

If you want more info call me between 8am-2pm m-f and I will let you talk to Shawn, my turbo efi guru/employee. Cool

480-444-2501


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Neander
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 04:04 AM
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i was planning on building a lager displacement engine(in the 2000cc's) with high hp. in terms of hp, probably under 200? im just looking for some good ideas for a strong turbo engine set-up,with efi if possible. if you were to build a 2332 cc turbo baja engine what would you use?

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KooK
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 04:53 AM
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BugZyla.com wrote:
We worked on a turbo multi port injected rail a few weeks back. VERY responsive and fast!! Just gotta get the right exhaust scroll on the turbo so it spools fast.

If you want more info call me between 8am-2pm m-f and I will let you talk to Shawn, my turbo efi guru/employee. Cool

480-444-2501

Thank God, somebody with Aircooled turbo experience, you take over. Very Happy

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Neander
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Post Post subject: Re: turbo efi baja
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 05:05 AM
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yea lol i'll hit him up tomorrow. thx for your help tho:)

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