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Baja Forums -:- VW Volkswagen Bug, Baja, Bus, Sandrail and Thing -:- VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion -:- building a new engine
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building a new engine
Bug, Baja, Thing and Buggies. Most every thing that will not fit any any other area. See list of other Forums for better topic placement...Volkswagen General Discussion
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70bug
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Post Post subject: building a new engine
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:17 AM
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alright so i want to build my dual port 1600 up, any recommendations? i want to run dual 44s, mild cam just enough stuff give her a little more ass.


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57baja
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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 01:11 AM
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What's your budget?


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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 03:01 AM
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about 1500


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57baja
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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 05:21 AM
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1500 will buy you a set of Weber 44's, an exhaust, a German 009 distributor, and that's about it. It'll run like a turd, but you'll have your 44's.

If I were doing it, I'd go about it differently, and you'd get much better results.

87mm Piston/Cyl set - $175
1.25 ratio rockers - $100
CB 044 heads 40mmx35mm - $550 (spend some time and port them yourself. It makes all the difference in the world)
Dual Kadron 40mm Carb Kit - $450
009 Distributor (Bosche, not knock off) - $100
Tri-Mil 1-5/8" merged exhaust - $125

That's all bolt on, so you won't need to split your case.

Going, going, gone... It's only money.

It's a slippery slope. That's my $1500 rebuild/freshening up job. That would be a pretty good running 1641cc engine. You'd be faster than many 1835's and 1914's if you spent time working the heads, and you'd have good bottom end torque, which is important for a baja.

If you've got, say $3000, we can get even better. For about 6K we can REALLY start moving. And for TEN....

Well...

We'll leave that discussion for another day.


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70bug
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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 04:48 PM
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im probaly just going to do the 87mm setup you had put toghether thanks


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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 02:46 AM
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You can't beat 57s mods for bolt on max torque mods for miniumum cash.
Dual 44s are the pits off roading. Great for the street or dunes they work good on a 2276 with an Engle 120 cam.
Heres another good one if your willing to split the case and spend $300 more (sorry still no 44s) building a strong off road 1835 with LOTs of torque. (The kads are availabe with off road vents if your set on Duals)
(I picked the 1835 over the 1641 since the price changes by under $100.00, cheap torque.)

$180 p&ls (same price as 87s)
$600 heads custom ported by Steve Tims for the application or by someone with experience with single carb off road engines.
(you could get away with heads like the MOFOCO 041 heads for $340 and keep the price closer to $1500)
$200 Web 111 cam and lifter and bolt on gear
$160 line bore and full flow
$125 bearings gaskets pr tubes etc
$135 off road header w/ with muffler
$35.00 HD rocker shafts
Swap your vac advance dist for a 009)
$120 oil pump for full flow, full flow cover, remote oil filter, cheap empi oil cooler kit
$250 used single 40 mm Weber
The hose clamps for the oil lines will be the weak link.
THis will be a copy of my first experiment to build a cheap off road engine.
Built in 1992 its still running today. It has been in my daily driver Baja, Tow'd and twice used in my street legalrail. I put 3500 miles on it since June in the rail.
It is made as junk yard as I dared. no balancing, used line bored case, stock crank and rods, stock push rods, stocker rockers with HD shafts, stock 041 heads, used Melling oil pump, Weber version of the VZ 14 cam, Weber reground lifters, single stock springs, Zenith 32NDIX carb. The only failure was a bent valve due to the keeper pulling through the stock retainer. I did use a plate style oil cooler and the safer AN style fittings w braided hoses. ( I built 3 more expensive versions first; 1776, 1835, 1951 (76x90.5) with compression ratio set, cw cranks, dual valve springs, balanced, pushrod length set, GB oil pumps and heads custom ported by Dean Lowry and Mike Fischer and it really wakes them up especially the 76 crank. That one lit up 30" tall off road tires like they were 165 15s).

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70bug
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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 07:00 PM
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so i split the case i used a micrometer (thats whats nice about being an engineer you fun little tools) and did all the measurements on crank every journal was well in specs bearings looked great. my conclusion is that someone rebuilt this engine. my goal for this baja is to go in the desert then turn around and slap on my paddles and go to the dunes so i need the low end torque to turn those paddles. 57 you are using the kardron rigjht? i have heard alot of good things about them. does any one have any carbs laying around if they need to be rebuilt thats fine? 57 will your set up do preety well in the dunes? thanks guys for your input!!!!!!!!!


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57baja
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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 08:19 AM
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70bug: No, mine are not currently Kads. I've used them in the past and wouldn't hesitate to do it again in a heartbeat. I've got at least 5 grand into my current engine (in parts, I built it myself), and that doesn't include the brand new 44 Webers that I picked up for free. It's a little different animal than what you're working with, though. I would build the engine I mentioned before without hesitation for your application.

But you've crossed the point of no return now...

If you already split the case, do it right. You might as well. Take it to Rimco or some other VW machine shop and have it bored for 94's and buy those instead of the 87's. With that combo, you'll for sure need to eight-dowel your crank and flywheel, and Rimco can do that, too. Take out the stock cam and run an Engle VZ-15 with double thrust cam bearings. Sure, it will cost you a few bucks extra, but will be worth it. Now, you're going to be making mods though that will take a little more care in building. Still, it won't be overwhelming, but it will certainly be a bit tougher. Don't go any bigger with the cam than that. Ditch the 1.25 rockers (don't even try to run that combo). You'll need to reshape the combustion chambers in the heads to get your compression ratio in reason (keep it at about 8:1, max). You'll also need to check your deck height and keep it between .040 and .060 to keep the cooling (or "Quench") characteristics within tolerance, and possibly shim your rocker arms and/or your cylinders to get your rocker arm geometry correct. I'd still use the Kads on that engine, and a Bosche (not Empi) 009, better yet a 010 if you can find one, good exhaust, and the same heads as I mentioned before. If you really want it to run smoothly, have Rimco balance your rods and crank together while you have it there. You can put a full flow filter/pump combo on that and it will work fine. Buy the one from CB Performance. It's pretty cheap, but good quality. You can modify the oil passages in that one to make it flow better, too.

It won't be that much more money, but it's money well spent at this point. You'll be happy with the results.


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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 04:29 PM
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The VZ 15 will work well with small paddle tires. My cheap 1835 used the Weber version of the VZ 15 and worked well at Glamis. My only change would be a CB in and out pump (or full flow the case) with a seperate oil filter and an oil temp guage. I am thinking the guage will indicate the need for an extra oil cooler and then it will be easy to add one.

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70bug
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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 05:45 PM
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57 you know your shit but i figured if im going to spend the money them im going to split the case and really do this engine so im going to start with rimco and get that going if anyone knows anyone getting rid of some carbs let me know thanks for all of the advice


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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 05:46 PM
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57 you know your shit but i figured if im going to spend the money them im going to split the case and really do this engine so im going to start with rimco and get that going if anyone knows anyone getting rid of some carbs let me know thanks for all of the advice


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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 05:51 AM
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Here's a set on Ebay for a T4:


Ebay Kadrons


Change the intake manifolds and linkage and your GTG. I might know a guy who has a set. I know I do, but they'd be in a million pieces, and I'm not sure I could find all the pieces. If you run across an incomplete set, I'm sure I could help you find whatever pieces you're missing.

I'm sure someone has some on the Samba classifieds, or maybe even post on here in the classifieds that you're looking for some.


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70bug
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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 06:54 PM
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well i bid on those carbs so we'll see what we got thanks 57


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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 06:41 AM
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I expect to see you at the meeting next week as a "Down Payment" toward future advice. Smile


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Post Post subject: Re: building a new engine
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 07:03 PM
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will do


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