AzBaja.com, Home of the VW Baja Bug  
Toggle ContentToggle Content
Toggle Content AzBaja Site info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: Treeposter
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 3538

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 247
Total: 247
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: AMAZON.com
02: Baja Forums
03: AMAZON.com
04: AMAZON.com
05: Baja Forums
06: AMAZON.com
07: AMAZON.com
08: AMAZON.com
09: Baja Forums
10: AMAZON.com
11: AMAZON.com
12: AMAZON.com
13: AMAZON.com
14: Baja Forums
15: AMAZON.com
16: AMAZON.com
17: AMAZON.com
18: Event Calendar
19: AMAZON.com
20: AMAZON.com
21: AMAZON.com
22: AMAZON.com
23: AMAZON.com
24: Pictures
25: Event Calendar
26: AMAZON.com
27: Baja Forums
28: AMAZON.com
29: AMAZON.com
30: AMAZON.com
31: Baja Forums
32: AMAZON.com
33: Baja Forums
34: AMAZON.com
35: AMAZON.com
36: Event Calendar
37: AMAZON.com
38: AMAZON.com
39: AMAZON.com
40: Baja Forums
41: AMAZON.com
42: AMAZON.com
43: AMAZON.com
44: Pictures
45: AMAZON.com
46: AMAZON.com
47: Event Calendar
48: AMAZON.com
49: AMAZON.com
50: AMAZON.com
51: AMAZON.com
52: AMAZON.com
53: AMAZON.com
54: AMAZON.com
55: Pictures
56: AMAZON.com
57: Event Calendar
58: Baja Forums
59: AMAZON.com
60: AMAZON.com
61: AMAZON.com
62: AMAZON.com
63: Garage
64: AMAZON.com
65: Baja Forums
66: Baja Forums
67: AMAZON.com
68: AMAZON.com
69: Baja Forums
70: AMAZON.com
71: Baja Forums
72: AMAZON.com
73: Baja Forums
74: AMAZON.com
75: Baja Forums
76: AMAZON.com
77: AMAZON.com
78: AMAZON.com
79: AMAZON.com
80: AMAZON.com
81: AMAZON.com
82: Event Calendar
83: AMAZON.com
84: AMAZON.com
85: Event Calendar
86: AMAZON.com
87: AMAZON.com
88: AMAZON.com
89: AMAZON.com
90: AMAZON.com
91: Baja Forums
92: AMAZON.com
93: AMAZON.com
94: AMAZON.com
95: AMAZON.com
96: AMAZON.com
97: AMAZON.com
98: AMAZON.com
99: AMAZON.com
100: Baja Forums
101: AMAZON.com
102: AMAZON.com
103: AMAZON.com
104: AMAZON.com
105: AMAZON.com
106: Pictures
107: AMAZON.com
108: AMAZON.com
109: AMAZON.com
110: Baja Forums
111: AMAZON.com
112: AMAZON.com
113: AMAZON.com
114: AMAZON.com
115: AMAZON.com
116: AMAZON.com
117: AMAZON.com
118: Baja Forums
119: Baja Forums
120: AMAZON.com
121: AMAZON.com
122: Baja Forums
123: AMAZON.com
124: AMAZON.com
125: Baja Forums
126: Baja Forums
127: AMAZON.com
128: Baja Forums
129: Baja Forums
130: AMAZON.com
131: AMAZON.com
132: AMAZON.com
133: AMAZON.com
134: Baja Forums
135: Event Calendar
136: AMAZON.com
137: AMAZON.com
138: AMAZON.com
139: AMAZON.com
140: AMAZON.com
141: AMAZON.com
142: AMAZON.com
143: Baja Forums
144: Event Calendar
145: AMAZON.com
146: AMAZON.com
147: AMAZON.com
148: AMAZON.com
149: Baja Forums
150: AMAZON.com
151: AMAZON.com
152: AMAZON.com
153: Event Calendar
154: AMAZON.com
155: Pictures
156: Baja Forums
157: AMAZON.com
158: AMAZON.com
159: AMAZON.com
160: AMAZON.com
161: AMAZON.com
162: AMAZON.com
163: AMAZON.com
164: AMAZON.com
165: AMAZON.com
166: AMAZON.com
167: Event Calendar
168: Baja Forums
169: AMAZON.com
170: Baja Forums
171: AMAZON.com
172: Pictures
173: AMAZON.com
174: AMAZON.com
175: AMAZON.com
176: AMAZON.com
177: Baja Forums
178: AMAZON.com
179: AMAZON.com
180: Baja Forums
181: AMAZON.com
182: AMAZON.com
183: AMAZON.com
184: AMAZON.com
185: Baja Forums
186: AMAZON.com
187: AMAZON.com
188: AMAZON.com
189: AMAZON.com
190: Event Calendar
191: Baja Forums
192: Event Calendar
193: AMAZON.com
194: Baja Forums
195: AMAZON.com
196: AMAZON.com
197: Event Calendar
198: AMAZON.com
199: AMAZON.com
200: Baja Forums
201: AMAZON.com
202: AMAZON.com
203: Baja Forums
204: AMAZON.com
205: AMAZON.com
206: Pictures
207: Baja Forums
208: AMAZON.com
209: Baja Forums
210: AMAZON.com
211: Baja Forums
212: AMAZON.com
213: AMAZON.com
214: AMAZON.com
215: AMAZON.com
216: AMAZON.com
217: AMAZON.com
218: Baja Forums
219: AMAZON.com
220: AMAZON.com
221: AMAZON.com
222: AMAZON.com
223: Baja Forums
224: AMAZON.com
225: AMAZON.com
226: AMAZON.com
227: AMAZON.com
228: AMAZON.com
229: AMAZON.com
230: AMAZON.com
231: AMAZON.com
232: AMAZON.com
233: Baja Forums
234: AMAZON.com
235: AMAZON.com
236: AMAZON.com
237: AMAZON.com
238: Baja Forums
239: Baja Forums
240: AMAZON.com
241: AMAZON.com
242: AMAZON.com
243: AMAZON.com
244: AMAZON.com
245: AMAZON.com
246: AMAZON.com
247: AMAZON.com

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!

Toggle Content GPS

Baja Forums -:- VW Volkswagen Bug, Baja, Bus, Sandrail and Thing -:- VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion -:- baja power troubles
Amazon Store

Updating Server
AzBaja.com is on new server. Any problems or strange things going on let me know so I can fix them ASAP - Thanks AzBaja aka Eric Hall

baja power troubles
Bug, Baja, Thing and Buggies. Most every thing that will not fit any any other area. See list of other Forums for better topic placement...Volkswagen General Discussion
Users browsing this topic: None
Post new topic Reply to topic Printer Friendly Page
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
bajaboy
Recruit
Recruit

bajaboy

Offline

Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 2
Location: latrobe valley vic
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: baja power troubles
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:52 AM
Reply with quote

Question hi there,
i have a baja buggy with 30 inch rear tyers on it the motor is a 1600 twinport engine with a zenith carby on it i want better power when driving through the bush etc wats the best upgrading motor or lowering gear ratio plz help
rob

Back to top
View user's profile
DONT
Master SGT.
Master SGT.

DONT

Offline

Joined: Sep 20, 2006
Posts: 2044
Location: GILBERT, AZ
Karma: +19

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 04:34 PM
Reply with quote

First thing is to optomize your current combo, make sure it is running the best it can. If you can get a bus trans, that will give you better gearing to help you climb.


_________________
66 Baja Project, slowly making progress.
Back to top
View user's profile
bajaboy
Recruit
Recruit

bajaboy

Offline

Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 2
Location: latrobe valley vic
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:14 AM
Reply with quote

yeh i pretty much have timing is all good done valves and all that
i have a gearbox at home which i was told has kombi gearing wats the best way of testing the gearing without pulling the gearbox apart

Back to top
View user's profile
perrib
1st SGT.
1st SGT.

perrib

Offline

Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 3352
Location: Chandler
Karma: +51

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 08:26 PM
Reply with quote

To check the gearing out of the vehicle mark the input and output shafts at 12 o'clock have someone count the revolution as you turn both output shafts in the same direction at the same speed for one full turn. This will get your overall gearing. This will take three people if its a swingaxle. If its a bus IRS three ribs had a 5.38 to 1 R&P which as is would be ideal for your 1600 engine but highway speeds would be limited. What transaxle do you have in it?

You are dead on looking for more torque.
Heres a bit what I learned about more torque in the last twenty years.
Torque cost money. How much do you want to spend? How much go you really need?
I also learned what is BEST is not a direct question and the answer changes often if you keep asking yourself it!
Installing a WEB 111 cam, 8.5 or 9 to 1 compression and a lightened flywheel would wake up the engine. Installing 1.58 3rd and 1.21 4th gears to your existing trans will make it Baja friendly. Top speed would be limited to about 70 to 80 mph with a stock 1600. The spare transaxle you have if geared lower will be the cheapest upgrade for more torque.

Cam and lifter swap will set you back $200.00. The correct length push rods would set you back a little more. But for the 111 cam and Webber (Engle VZ 15 style) I used the stock push rods, stock valve springs and stock keepers. I got away with the push rods to this day in the 1835 (next paragraph). The 1600 was sacrificed to make the 1835. It took about 9 months to see how long a stock retainer would last. I upgraded to better retainers and one straight valve. It has never been apart and the endplay has not changed since then.

At this point I think you will have the best combo for having the most torque and fun for the least amount of money spent.

My next "best" cheap torque combo that did not break and treated me very well was a 1835 with a VZ 15 style Webber cam, 9.5 to 1 compression, stock 041 heads with Zenith carb. Transaxle was a swing 4.12 RP, threaded super diff, steel side cover, 3.78 first 2.06 second, 1.58 third and 1.21 4th gears. This would cost about $1800 if you reused your case, crank and rods. This junk yard engine is now 17 years old, I also ran this engine with a stock 3 rib 1970 T-2 transaxle which was better for low speed driving but struggled with the stock 3rd and 4th gears in sand. Off road this engine and the two below it will spit out stock T-1 cvs on demand.

For a friend, I also built a 1915 with a VZ 14 cam, Mike Fischer ported CB 044 heads and Zenith carb. The torque off idle was amazing. In first the 30x10.50 Michelins would go up in smoke (4.12 rp and 3.78 1st gear). It pulled the stock 3rd and 4th gears better than a VZ 15 would have in that engine. Custom heads will cost you $800-1000.

Was this the best for me? I did not think so.
Not content with the torque I had and money burning a hole in my pocket the next engine was a 2180. This time it was carte blanche. Harry Webber suggested one of his stroker cranks and race rods along with his custom version of a VZ 25 cam with more lift and wider lobe centers. I gave a new case and the cam to Dean Lowry telling him about the Zenith carb, gear ratios, etc. I had and asked him to make a set of heads. This time every part was new, cam timing set, push rod length set and engine balanced. About $2200 in 1992 or $4000 today. Now to much torque was an issue stabbing the throttle caused it to want to go left instead of straight hill climbing. It also snapped an axle the first time out and two more waiting for a set Diamond Racing axles, which solved the breakage. Curious I took it to the strip and ran mid 15s in the 1/4. The problem is this became the best combo for torque vs money spent. Also it was not so fun (wasted $$) getting it reliable again.
I also though it best not to learn first hand about turbos.
In hindsight the end the original $1300 dollar investment 1600 cc engine , cam, suspension seats went 98% of the places the final money pit did just a little slower.
The next best investment after a little more torque is suspension seats.
Sorry about the long post but best is a tough question to answer if limits are not set. Good luck and post some pictures of the Baja in the bush.

0
Back to top
View user's profile
nube_w_1970baja
Corporal
Corporal

nube_w_1970baja

Offline

Joined: Oct 27, 2007
Posts: 116
Location: tempe, az
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 02:54 AM
Reply with quote

so then how does a turbo 1600 equate to an 1835, reliability and power?


_________________
i usually create my own problems
Back to top
View user's profile
perrib
1st SGT.
1st SGT.

perrib

Offline

Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 3352
Location: Chandler
Karma: +51

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 03:38 AM
Reply with quote

My friend made one from the junk yard and parts he had laying around. progressive Peber, Firebird turbo, etc. The adjustable fuel pressure regulator, bearings and P&Ls were the only new parts. First gear was 1/2 as slow as a stock 1600 but when it hit boost in second gear and third gear it would pass my 2180 hill climbing at Glamis. The 2180 had better all around power for off roading but that 1600 turbo was really something especially for the $600.00 it took to build.
Here what happen when you spend a little more.
www.azbaja.com/Forums/...html#36518

0
Back to top
View user's profile
fast_1
Sergeant
Sergeant

fast_1

Offline

Joined: Jul 22, 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 07:42 AM
Reply with quote

Perrib got a question for you...

In my experience throwing a lightened fly wheel on kills torque. But my experience is with a more modern inline 4 that revs to 8200 rpm. Going from an 18 lb. flywheel to an 8 lb. killed torque, but the stock power-band doesn't kick in until about 4500 rpm, so I'm not really worried about torque.

Anyways back to my question how much is the effect on a 1600? Or in 1835+?


_________________
Red '67 Baja - Tons of fun Stuff!
Back to top
View user's profile
perrib
1st SGT.
1st SGT.

perrib

Offline

Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 3352
Location: Chandler
Karma: +51

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 07:59 AM
Reply with quote

It lets the rpm build quicker. I can idle down to about 5 mph in third and pull away with my 1835, Zenith carb, 12 lb flywheel and Weber custom grind of the VZ 15 cam. I can let the clutch out in first gear at about 1000 rpms and pullaway. It pulls even better with 93 octane fuel. I guess that olds wives tale does not work for an engine built for low end torque. I drove a WRX that had a lightened flywheel, bigger turbo, intercooler and chip that stalled every time if you did not have the revs up. But the higher the rpm power band the less you have at the bottom hence the need for a heavy flywheel. It did not do that with the stock weight flywheel. You might want to leave the stock weight flywheel with a stock cammed 1600 engine. The VZ 14 cam is a different story. A lightened flywheel is most noticable in first gear. There is not much difference in higher gears.

0
Back to top
View user's profile
fast_1
Sergeant
Sergeant

fast_1

Offline

Joined: Jul 22, 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 08:04 AM
Reply with quote

Hmmm... Thanks for the info, all seems to make sense.

I guess the real solution is more money and a bigger engine. Although I can't complain much. I've only had my baja out a couple of times and it seemed to pull fine with the 31's but the transmission has been geared and strengthened so that probably helped a bit.


_________________
Red '67 Baja - Tons of fun Stuff!
Back to top
View user's profile
perrib
1st SGT.
1st SGT.

perrib

Offline

Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 3352
Location: Chandler
Karma: +51

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 08:12 AM
Reply with quote

Swiching 3rd and 4th gears is the best thing to do first. A Web 111 cam and lifter set will only set you back $200 if you can install it yourself.

0
Back to top
View user's profile
70bug
Private 1st class
Private 1st class

70bug

Offline

Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 62
Location: seal beach, ca. but born and raised az
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: baja power troubles
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 07:13 PM
Reply with quote

the subaru problem a turbo is ran off exhaust and a car only has so much . a larger turbo takes more exhaust gases which the engine dosnt have enough. so it falls on its face. but ne ways a turbo is free power but if your using it for a daily driver you wont get the the effect you want or expect from a turbo because the engine is not rapping out like you run it in the dunes or the desert so then it wont fully wind up that turbo. turbo forces air into the engine. which is good but then you need a carb that will supply enough fuel or else you are going to run lean. lean=hotter engine. i recomend them over any other thing. im a diesel engineer so i deal with turbos all day long.


_________________
its not a tragedy to die doing something you love
Back to top
View user's profile
Post new topic Reply to topic Printer Friendly Page

 Topics   Replies   Author   Views   Last Post 
Announcement
No new posts Events and Get Togethers World Wide DO YOU NEED A HAND WITH YOUR BAJA?
[ Go to pageGo to page: 1 ... 3, 4, 5 ]
71 kevin 56254 Re: DO YOU NEED A HAND...
 Thu Jan 26, 2017 01:12 AM 
TINMAN View latest post
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion Baja Bugs on Wiki needs HELP!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja_Bug
4 Admin_AzBaja 4317 Baja Bugs on Wiki need...
 Sat Dec 22, 2012 04:57 AM 
MojaveRacer208 View latest post
Sticky
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion what did you do to your buggy/baja/Thing/Sandrail today?
[ Go to pageGo to page: 1 ... 103, 104, 105 ]
1561 mufasavnvmc 734002 what did you do to you...
 Thu Jun 15, 2017 09:28 AM 
daelan37 View latest post
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion Baja sightings
Saw a baja driving around town somewhere? Post it up!
[ Go to pageGo to page: 1 ... 18, 19, 20 ]
285 MusicManiac 184663 Re: Baja sightings
 Thu Jan 23, 2014 03:41 AM 
MojaveRacer208 View latest post
Normal
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion Considering buying a Baja Bug, but I have questions 4 AutomotiveDino 1900 Considering buying a B...
 Mon Jun 19, 2017 09:39 AM 
daelan37 View latest post
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Toggle Content Picture Box

Toggle Content Great things to Buy

Toggle Content Other Sites

Toggle Content Parts - For your Car

If you see Errors please E-mail Eric (AT) AzBaja.com X XX XXX
azbaja.com Webutation

eXTReMe Tracker
XXXX
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of their respective owners
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the property of the poster. Any use, commercial or educational, requires written permission from the author.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy