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Baja Forums -:- VW Volkswagen Bug, Baja, Bus, Sandrail and Thing -:- VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion -:- other engines for bajas
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other engines for bajas
Bug, Baja, Thing and Buggies. Most every thing that will not fit any any other area. See list of other Forums for better topic placement...Volkswagen General Discussion
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The following users give thanks for this topic Anonymous - Tue Apr 14, 2009 04:39 PM
69bapbaja
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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 07:53 PM
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I have to side with mark on this one. due to the fact that yes you can build a vw motor to run circles around the sub's and the v8's. The problem is that you loose the reliabilty of the power. Kinda like a cheata they can only run fast for a short time. Ie. vw motor startes to vibrate and inertly looses carb settings, boost, and in most cases blow up. Because someone's had to prove a point that there small balls can do it.

With a 2.3 or other motor you are receiving the power and the torque on a stock motor with out the costly maintace, of the SUPER VW motor. Where the other motor just get in and turn it on every time. Know if you look at the vw motor sand rails there only out there in bursts. where the other motor rails need the gps to get back.

I my self is thinking of a 22re fuel infected turbo. good torque and reliabilaty. Plus how many 22re's are on the road?

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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 07:59 PM
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last time i was at buttercup, those v-8 powered rails broke more trans and shafts in minutes vs the vw powered rails.


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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 08:09 PM
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I my self is thinking of a 22re fuel infected turbo. good torque and reliabilaty. Plus how many 22re's are on the road? tons, the 22r is almost indestructable... Razz

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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 09:05 PM
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will the 22re crank out too much power and break shafts?


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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:30 PM
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930 CVs and a Bus Trans, your good to go. Not to mention there are almost as pany performance parts available for the 22r as there are for the small block chevy, oh and they are a semi-hemispherical combustion chamber.


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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:32 PM
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I almost forgot, you can run a 20r head on a 22r and make more HP.


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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 05:05 AM
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Wow,

and the saga of air versus water goes on...haha

SHMO

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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 05:49 AM
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Breakage is usually poor engineering or stupidity. A small amount of breakage is simply because it was time. Those that run too much power for their trannies or axles will have as much problems as those with power that try and wheelie all the time. I ran a turbo 2.3 against a stock three rib for three years without much problem. A couple broken CV's when the limit straps broke was about it. What finally gave in were the second gear synchros. We took it apart and it still looks good although I am stepping up to a stronger tranny.

The most expensive part of an off-road (or any) car is the repairs from getting the front end off the ground.

-Mark


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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 06:36 PM
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hey there is a guy here in portland craigs list that has a turbo efi yota 4 banger for $1000 with the wiring and ecu. he siad it is real low mileage rebuild. even a brand new turbo worth $1500. its not mine just thought I would pass it along.

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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 06:47 PM
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I notice that this discussion is mostly based on the Ford 2.3. This is a good motor, I don't think many (who know engines) would argue that. I am an performance engine builder and designer for a living, been one for darn near 20 years. Arguing "best engine" with someone is pretty much pointless. Normally, both sides have their mind made up and there will be very little that would change the mind of either side. So if I guy thinks the air-cooled VW is the best thing ever...and he has one...who am I to try and make him unhappy?
However...there are a few things that I personally feel people should NOT do when trying to defend their engine choice, whether it be air or water cooled. One of the biggies is stating negative things about the other without having any real facts to back it up. A statement was made that a water cooled power plant is just too heavy. In many cases... I feel that this is true. With saying that...I do NOT think a generalization should be made that ALL water cooled conversions are too heavy.
Here are a couple of facts to mill over. I have a large digital platform scale, the type a vet uses to weigh horses (accurate to the pound). Now depending on how you dress a type one VW engine, they fall between 210 and 220 pounds, ready to run, pretty light. But, lets do the same thing with a 2.0 Subaru engine. The engine with no radiator, adapter or ECU weights 257 pounds. Now add the radiator...8 pounds, the plumbing..4 pounds (on a rear mount radiator)...2 pounds for the fuel pump...the ecu 1 pound and the adapter plate 11 pounds. Lets not forget the water, a rear rad takes just a little under two gallons, lets call it two for the sake of argument. Water is 8.3 pounds per gallon, so that's 16.6 pounds. Now we are at a total of 299.6 pounds. Lets split the difference on the VW and call it 215 pounds. We now have a difference of 84.6 pounds. The weight of driver and his gear can fluctuate that much...I probably have 80 pounds of weight on an average size guy. So the weight issue is really not a good one to stand on if making a comparison with a Subaru conversion.
If you would like to have some 100% facts (not opinions) on the actual cost of a Subaru conversion, how much power it REALLY puts to the tires (I have a chassis dyno), I can answer those questions.
Again...if you want to make a motor choice by facts and not opinions, I would be more than happy to lay out exactly what it takes as far as time, money and skill level needed to do either air or water. If you just want to talk about which one you personally like better than the other, that's fine too, but don't bash one side with things you THINK may be bad about them. Get real information to back up what you are saying, it goes much further when trying to make someone understand your side of things.

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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 08:40 PM
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As with anything, its all in the setup of the car the "big picture". If you have a heavier motor, a set of 3x3 arms will move the weight more towards the center of the axle and make the weight distribution better.

Welcome to AzBaja Shmo & Scott.


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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 08:54 PM
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I still think is doesnt matter what motor you have. If you dont have the suspenion to handle the power, it is usless.


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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:11 PM
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Dirtjunkie wrote:
I still think is doesnt matter what motor you have. If you dont have the suspenion to handle the power, it is usless.

Well....I think everyone agrees with that....(I hope).

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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:14 PM
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Thanks for the welcome Bugzyla.

Good points Scott, and one I took into consideration when building my own car. I chose to use a GM Ecotec motor, which is extremely light. My biggest concern doing a motor swap was that I wanted a healthy engine that was absolutely turnkey and reliable. Now I know someone could build a VW motor with the power of this Ecotec, but I honestly doubt that one could be put together to run as well or last as long. I also KNOW that a (comparable performance and quality) VW motor could not be put together as inexpensively. I have roughly $3,800-$4,000 into my engine swap, complete. That is including the aluminum radiator, braided lines, AN fittings, high torque starter, fans, computer, wiring, clutch, adapter plate, fuel pump and all the neccisary pieces to put it all together. Everything was done top shelf, nothing was skimped on or just hung together. The biggest obstacle was the installation. Granted, it was a fairly involved task to transplant a liquid cooled motor into a VW platform, at least to the degree I considered acceptable. However, I am sure alot of guys would be happy with something a little more rough around the edges that could be done much quicker and easier, and obviously much cheaper. With that said, I think the biggest concern in choosing a motor is "how you want to go about it". If the fabrication involved in a liquid cooled swap is not a concern, I think there is no better way of adding GOBS of power to your vehicle. Arguing between the performance of an aircooled motor and one of the above mentioned liquid cooled motors is fruitless. Anyone that claims they are comparable is nuts, absolutely frickin nuts! However If the fabrication or the complexity of a conversion scares you a little, adding a healthy aircooled motor is probably the easiest route. I do know a strong running and reliable aircooled motor is easily possible. Its been done, and it's been proven. But for those of you that can do all the conversion work yourself, it is hard to compete with something like the economical 2.3 ford transplant. It is simply more power right out of the box. For those of you that claim you can build a low buck monster-powered turbo VW motor and drive it for years without turning a wrench, I would really like to see one of those in person because that is a bit of a mystery to me.

The bottom line in my book is to run an Aircooled motor if you want simplicity, or run a Water cooled motor if you want reliabilty along with added power. At least that is my take on it.

SHMO

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Post Post subject: Re: other engines for bajas
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 01:51 AM
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welcome scott and shmo, lets just leave the discussion about magnetic flames alone and everybody well be happy... Wink not to stur the pot but i like your photo shop skills and there welcome here... Razz

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