AzBaja.com, Home of the VW Baja Bug  
Toggle ContentToggle Content
Toggle Content AzBaja Site info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: aivnaardi
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 3566

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 62
Total: 62
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Baja Forums
02: Baja Forums
03: Baja Forums
04: Baja Forums
05: Baja Forums
06: Baja Forums
07: Baja Forums
08: Baja Forums
09: Event Calendar
10: Event Calendar
11: Baja Forums
12: AMAZON.com
13: Home
14: Baja Forums
15: AMAZON.com
16: Baja Forums
17: AMAZON.com
18: Home
19: Baja Forums
20: AMAZON.com
21: AMAZON.com
22: Baja Forums
23: AMAZON.com
24: Baja Forums
25: Baja Forums
26: Baja Forums
27: Baja Forums
28: Baja Forums
29: Baja Forums
30: Baja Forums
31: AMAZON.com
32: Baja Forums
33: Baja Forums
34: Baja Forums
35: Baja Forums
36: AMAZON.com
37: AMAZON.com
38: AMAZON.com
39: Baja Forums
40: Baja Forums
41: AMAZON.com
42: Baja Forums
43: Event Calendar
44: Baja Forums
45: AMAZON.com
46: Baja Forums
47: Event Calendar
48: Baja Forums
49: Baja Forums
50: Baja Forums
51: Baja Forums
52: AMAZON.com
53: Baja Forums
54: AMAZON.com
55: Baja Forums
56: Baja Forums
57: Baja Forums
58: Baja Forums
59: Baja Forums
60: Baja Forums
61: Baja Forums
62: Baja Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!

Toggle Content GPS

Baja Forums -:- VW Volkswagen Bug, Baja, Bus, Sandrail and Thing -:- VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion -:- Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Amazon Store

Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Bug, Baja, Thing and Buggies. Most every thing that will not fit any any other area. See list of other Forums for better topic placement...Volkswagen General Discussion
Users browsing this topic: None
Post new topic Reply to topic Printer Friendly Page

1 2
>
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
The following users give thanks for this topic Anonymous - Fri Apr 10, 2009 01:15 PM
Patzke
Private 1st class
Private 1st class

Patzke

Offline

Joined: Dec 24, 2007
Posts: 92
Location: Oro Valley/La Cholla Airpark
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 08:29 AM
Reply with quote

Hello All!

Have a 71' baja in progress, and a 69 I want to pick up in PHX this weekend.

Trying to get more in the loop of everything, just had a few questions:

Could someone link me to an explanation of cutting and turning, or explain it?

Could someone link me to an explanation of 3x3 arms and their advantages, or explain it?

I'll have more questions soon!

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
57baja
SGT. 1st Class
SGT. 1st Class

57baja

Offline

Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Posts: 1582
Location: Pasadena, California
Karma: +34

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 08:48 AM
Reply with quote

Cutting and turning refers to the front end. The two front torsion tubes carry springs inside that keep your tension on your trailing arms, thus providing support for your car. When you cut the middles out of them, turn them 1/4"+++, it changes the amount of preload on your springs. This, in turn, makes your car run higher (and rougher).

3x3 arms are used on the rear. What this means is that the rear trailing arms are 3" longer than stock, as well as 3" wider than stock. They make these special arms in a variety of different sizes (3x2, 4x5, etc), but 3x3's are the most popular. The longer arms provide for a softer ride and more wheel travel, as it moves you wheel further from the pivot point, thus adding additional leverage. In other words, when you add a cheater bar on a wrench to break loose a hard nut, you use less force to do the same amount of work. When you raise the car's center of gravity (by lifting it higher), you also make it less stable in turns, and more likely to flip sideways. Thus the extra 6" wider (3" times on both sides) makes it more stable.

You next question is most likely to be why a 6" wider beam up front? The same principle applies. When you make it wider, it will be more stable, side-to-side.

I hope that helps.

For reference, I run 3x3's with 1" wider disc brakes, and 33x12.50" tires. That makes my car about 19" wider in the rear than a stock bug with 7" wide tires: Each side: 3" + 1" + 5.5" = 9.5 Multiply that by 2 (each side) and you get around 19".

They also make longer trailing arms for the front.

Back to top
View user's profile
Patzke
Private 1st class
Private 1st class

Patzke

Offline

Joined: Dec 24, 2007
Posts: 92
Location: Oro Valley/La Cholla Airpark
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 05:49 PM
Reply with quote

Gaaaaaaaaaa, Perfect!

Exactly the answers I was looking for and more! I did some research, and looking on the bugs around me - and I figured out the 3x3 stuff. That makes perfect sense.

On the Cut and Turn, my guess is that the torsion bars are within the front end there, I will understand when I see and look at it. Smile

IRS suspension is obviously better, right? What year was it that they started throwing it on the Bugs? How horrible is a Baja without IRS, and if it doesn't have IRS, how bad is the conversion?

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
chrispy56
Corporal
Corporal

chrispy56

Offline

Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 178
Location: N. CA
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 08:56 PM
Reply with quote

they first had irs in 1969. so both your 71 and 69 should have it. unless they did a half year in 69. my entire conversion came from a 69 parts car. when your travel moves up and down your tires stay about 90 degrees to the ground, giving you better traction and stability and lowers your chances of rolling over when cornering or side hilling, etc. also longer tire life. the swing axle does not provide these advantages. the irs conversion is fairly simple and requires the whole rear suspension system including the transaxle, plus the trailing arm pivot bracket. it is best done with the body off to insure good welds.

Back to top
View user's profile
Patzke
Private 1st class
Private 1st class

Patzke

Offline

Joined: Dec 24, 2007
Posts: 92
Location: Oro Valley/La Cholla Airpark
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 09:38 PM
Reply with quote

Thanks for the input, it really helps! I understand about the IRS, and the non IRS stuff now. is the trans axel something you would buy or something you would pull off of an IRS bug? Can I do long travel and other suspension upgrades with a non-IRS bug: let's say a 67?

Looking at a few bugs right now in the Tucson and Phoenix areas. Trying to buy a baja thatS somewhat complete. Looking at a 67 I'm Tucson and a 69 in Phx. Would anyone reccomend AGAINST getting a baja without IRS? I.e. 1967 Baja

With that being said - anyone have a Baja In the Tucson phoenix areas theyre wanting to sell?

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
chrispy56
Corporal
Corporal

chrispy56

Offline

Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 178
Location: N. CA
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 02:21 AM
Reply with quote

the desired front suspension (link pin) WAS made up until 65. the desired rear suspension (IRS) WASNT made until 69. i would stay away from the 66, 67, and 68 models. i would rather convert to irs from swing axle than to link pin from ball joint.

Back to top
View user's profile
Patzke
Private 1st class
Private 1st class

Patzke

Offline

Joined: Dec 24, 2007
Posts: 92
Location: Oro Valley/La Cholla Airpark
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 04:21 AM
Reply with quote

Thank you Chrispy!

How bad is it to actually use, and run a swing axle off road? Is it a totally different experience from running IRS? If it's a horrible ride, and not anywhere near as nice, I will not even bother with the 67 Baja here in Tucson.

How expensive is the swing axle to IRS conversion?

Again: Anyone have a Baja they're selling here in Tucson and/or Phoenix?

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
ditch68
Sergeant
Sergeant

ditch68

Offline

Joined: Jun 08, 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Tucson, AZ
Karma: +2

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 05:47 AM
Reply with quote

Hi, Patzke, and welcome aboard.

First off, I live here in Tucson, but possibly more importantly (based on your location description) I work right in your area.

Maybe we could meet, I would be happy to share some info and go for a ride in my bug.

I will explain how they work, what you can improve, and ....of course,...cost! @#$%^%!


You have come to the right place.

Jeff


_________________
Beer is NOT AN OPTION....

(meaning not optional)

1961 Baja www.azbaja.com/ForumsP...=3203.html
1600 DP, IRS, LP... and lots of spray paint.
1971 Type 3 Squareback FI/AT
1988 Porsche 924S (Yes, it's a Porsche engine)

Back to top
View user's profile
chrispy56
Corporal
Corporal

chrispy56

Offline

Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 178
Location: N. CA
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 06:09 AM
Reply with quote

the cost of the conversion depends on what you can find as far as a parts car with the irs components. i spent a little over $100 on the 1969 parts car and the brackets that need to be welded in. I ran swing axle for about 4-6 months before converting and noticed the difference right away. It all depends on how you will use your car.

Back to top
View user's profile
ditch68
Sergeant
Sergeant

ditch68

Offline

Joined: Jun 08, 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Tucson, AZ
Karma: +2

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 06:22 AM
Reply with quote

IRS > swing, by far. It is a truly unsettling experience when your swingaxle car starts getting unassed at speed.

I personally would rather deal with a balljoint front end and have IRS than do a swingaxle car again.

Jeff


_________________
Beer is NOT AN OPTION....

(meaning not optional)

1961 Baja www.azbaja.com/ForumsP...=3203.html
1600 DP, IRS, LP... and lots of spray paint.
1971 Type 3 Squareback FI/AT
1988 Porsche 924S (Yes, it's a Porsche engine)

Back to top
View user's profile
57baja
SGT. 1st Class
SGT. 1st Class

57baja

Offline

Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Posts: 1582
Location: Pasadena, California
Karma: +34

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 07:42 AM
Reply with quote

Ditto that. Don't by a baja that is both swing and ball joint. I think 67's and 68's are in that category, and I'm not sure about 66's. You'd be better served to ride a bicycle with bald tires on and ice skating rink with roller skates on.

M point is, it can be done, but it's certainly not easy or pretty. I'd keep it an early 70's model, but BY ALL MEANS... DON'T BUY A SUPER BEETLE!

You can convert a ball joint (least desireable) front end to king pin in a variety of different ways, and it will be less expensive to do than an IRS conversion. IRS is without a doubt the way to go. As ditch said, ball joint is do-able, too. I ran mine for many years before I converted over to the real deal. I had only one problem ever, and it was while turning a corner on pavement at about 1 mph.

Back to top
View user's profile
Patzke
Private 1st class
Private 1st class

Patzke

Offline

Joined: Dec 24, 2007
Posts: 92
Location: Oro Valley/La Cholla Airpark
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 08:29 AM
Reply with quote

57Baja:

Caught that on the Super Beetle thing right away, no one likes those for Baja conversions. Running down to Chirco tomorrow with my 71 for a few pointers, and checking out the 67', decieded i dont really want to mess with the swing axle, just buy one thats IRS. I still want to take a look at that bug. Smile

Jeff: Where do you abouts do you work, and when will you be up in this area next? I will PM you my number if you want to give me a call, and maybe we could meet up soon, that would be EXTREMLY helpful. By the way, know of anyone selling a bug? Wink Making sure to explore all my options, not missing a bug being sold.

Unfortunately Baja supply in Tucson isn't high enough. Sad Most likely going to go to Phx and look at this bug: phoenix.craigslist.org...58313.html

and This bug: phoenix.craigslist.org...97926.html

If anyone lives near there, and wants to check them out, so i dont waste a trip, PM me! Smile

Thanks again for all of your input everyone!

Anyone (that lives close to me) need anything from Chirco tomorrow?

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
chrispy56
Corporal
Corporal

chrispy56

Offline

Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 178
Location: N. CA
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 05:20 PM
Reply with quote

both of those look to be in great shape.

Back to top
View user's profile
Patzke
Private 1st class
Private 1st class

Patzke

Offline

Joined: Dec 24, 2007
Posts: 92
Location: Oro Valley/La Cholla Airpark
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 06:06 PM
Reply with quote

Yeah, they do. Unfortunately I cannot go out to look at them until tomorrow. Sad

Hopefully their still around.. Confused

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
chrispy56
Corporal
Corporal

chrispy56

Offline

Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 178
Location: N. CA
Karma: 0

Post Post subject: Re: Baja Questions, Getting in the loop!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 06:17 PM
Reply with quote

good luck

Back to top
View user's profile

1 2
>
Post new topic Reply to topic Printer Friendly Page

 Topics   Replies   Author   Views   Last Post 
Announcement
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion Baja Bugs on Wiki needs HELP!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja_Bug
4 Admin_AzBaja 4888 Baja Bugs on Wiki need...
 Sat Dec 22, 2012 03:57 AM 
MojaveRacer208 View latest post
Sticky
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion what did you do to your buggy/baja/Thing/Sandrail today?
[ Go to pageGo to page: 1 ... 103, 104, 105 ]
1567 mufasavnvmc 817094 what did you do to you...
 Tue Aug 15, 2017 03:29 AM 
Azdrtdog View latest post
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion Baja sightings
Saw a baja driving around town somewhere? Post it up!
[ Go to pageGo to page: 1 ... 18, 19, 20 ]
285 MusicManiac 201377 Re: Baja sightings
 Thu Jan 23, 2014 02:41 AM 
MojaveRacer208 View latest post
Normal
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion Considering buying a Baja Bug, but I have questions 4 AutomotiveDino 2918 Considering buying a B...
 Mon Jun 19, 2017 09:39 AM 
daelan37 View latest post
No new posts VW Volkswagen & Baja Bug General Discussion What is my Baja really worth? 1 Treeposter 731 What is my Baja really...
 Sat Jun 17, 2017 04:06 PM 
Dirtjunkie View latest post
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Toggle Content Picture Box

Toggle Content Great things to Buy

Toggle Content Other Sites

Toggle Content Parts - For your Car

If you see Errors please E-mail Eric (AT) AzBaja.com X XX XXX
azbaja.com Webutation

eXTReMe Tracker
XXXX
The logos and trademarks used on this site are the property of their respective owners
We are not responsible for comments posted by our users, as they are the property of the poster. Any use, commercial or educational, requires written permission from the author.
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy